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New-FireTrucks.com |
New-FireTrucks.com |
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Although you wouldn't think it, but some of the people, dealers and companies who sell fire trucks are not the most credible or ethical folks you'll find...they are pretty much 'Used Cars Salesmen", who have chosen to sell new and used fire trucks, just because they think they can make more money at it with higher priced vehicles. What I share below unfortunately has become an industry standard with some dealers and manufacturers and the only way to change/stop this is to educate my fellow firefighters. If you don't want ripped off, or to pay more for your fire truck (whether newly built or used) than you should, look for these signs and traps which could cost you thousands of dollars, or to acquire the fire truck you don't need or which can become a nightmare. I know this is going to make many dealers/manufacturers hate me (they already do, because I disclose their tricks and and I force them to reduce their rates/commissions to match mine), but I much prefer being hated by a few unscrupulous salesmen, than to betray my fellow firefighters. New Fire Truck Sales I'll first tell you some of the pitfalls, when buying a new truck and then I'll share what to avoid and what not to do, when buying and/or selling a used fire truck. 1. DEALER AND MANUFACTURER RELATIONSHIPS: A. Find out how long the dealer has been in business, how long they have been representing the manufacturer, who they may have previously represented, why they terminated or why they were terminated from this previous relationship. Contact the manufacturer to gain as much information as possible, but do realize that some of the information they provide may be motivated because they want their new dealer to sell you your new fire truck...just do the due diligence, consider the facts and the motivations of all parties. This will not only give you information about the dealer and their stability, but also may give you some information about the other dealers and manufacturers, who may be submitting a bid to sell you a fire truck. B. Make sure the dealer or whoever services the trucks for the manufacturer has EVT (Emergency Vehicle Technicians) on their staff, who understand firefighting apparatus and who know how to service, provide preventive maintenance and to repair emergency vehicles. Make certain they have been factory trained for pump and aerial maintenance by the manufacturer of the pump and aerial, if/when applicable. 2. DEALERS WRITING YOUR SPECS: Whether it is for a grant or if it is for a bid, often fire departments will ask a dealer to write the specs for the new fire truck. First of all they are not going to write the specs for the fire truck you need. They are going to write the spec for the expensive fire truck they want to sell you, because they make more money by doing so. A. If they don't ask about your call volume, the nature of your calls, your manpower availability, your existing apparatus, community risks/hazards, and other important considerations...then how can they possibly know what you need? If they don't have a fire department and a community-risk profile form and help you with other means to determine exactly what it is your really need, don't even so much as consider buying a model fire truck from them, because they then don't know (and show they don't care) what you need, only what makes them the most money. B. DO NOT feel obligated to buy a truck from someone who wrote your bid specs, "to help you". C. DO NOT even consider a bid-spec written for you that has items in that that say "Proprietary Items" and or anything that says: "May Not Substitute", because this is how you are going to get locked into buying a fire truck someone wants to sell you, instead of buying the fire truck you need. D. Make sure there is a delivery date (# of days) after the approval of the bid and a penalty for any delays in delivery, such as $100/day for each day past the delivery date. E. Make sure the dealer includes a requirement of a performance bond to be included with the bid per the specs of the truck being met, per the reliability of the apparatus and per the truck being built and delivered on time. F. It is far better to hire a consultant to help you write your specs and with the bidding process, because their costs/fees will save you anywhere from 10 - 20 times, if not more, than if you had a dealer selling you the truck to write your bid...which is like giving him a blank check from your checkbook...you wouldn't do that would you? 3. LONG & COMPLICATED BID SPECS: A. There's an old expression "if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your B.S." . . . this sure relates to some of the bid/specs I've seen. A bid/spec should be easy to follow and understand, same with the bids you get back from your RFP, because how else will you know if they are meeting and/or exceeding your needs and requirements? B. There should be a summary sheet on the front, which has the basic break down per chassis, engine, transmission, water pump, aerial/out-riggers, cabinets, scene and emergency lighting, generator, special equipment etc. This should correspond in greater detail with the appropriate section in the rest of the bid. If the bid/spec is a thick book, its only value to you may be to set it on fire to use as a training aid trying to put out something this large. C. DO NOT send out an RFP, or accept any reply bid/spec you do not fully and completely understand, because how else will you know whether or not you are getting what you are paying for and how else can you successfully enforce the bid/contract? 4. DON'T OVERBUILD: A. If a fire department near you just got a new fire truck with a 1500 gpm pump, you don't need to get a new truck with a 2000 gpm pump, unless it is on a quint, or you have a serious and major industrial hazard/risk/exposure in your community. Ask yourself this question: "Who can handle a hose line with that kind of volume?". Also factor that even on a quint, the monitor at the tip of the aerial is usually only going to be able to push out 1000 gpm in a surround & drown operation and how many times do you have those requiring this kind of volume? B. Make sure the truck isn't so big and so heavy that you don't have to build a new fire station or annex to the station to house it. C. Make sure the truck isn't so large that you can't get it down every street and across every bridge and culvert in your community. What good is a fire truck, if you can't get it to the scene of a fire? This is particularly true of heavy-duty rescues, tanker-pumpers, and water tenders. Any apparatus with a water tank over 2000 gallon needs to be built on a tandem-axle chassis to support the weight. D. Consider a quick attack as your first responder unit. This is true because it will not only save you money in fuel and these are easier and less expensive to maintain and to repair, but the whole idea is to get the wet stuff on the red stuff as fast as you can, so that a little fire doesn't become a big fire. A 400 gallon tank, with foam, on a quick attack can do a lot of firefighting and lets face it if you arrive and need more than this, the structure is usually gone already and you need to wait on your other units for your surround and drown operation. Same is true per bringing an aerial, because "if the stick goes up, the structure is coming down" (if not immediately after the insurance agent is finished crying). E. If as a policy your department sends out apparatus with purely medically related (Heart Attack, Strokes, non-rescue accidents, etc.) ambulance calls, a small quick attack with rescue gear will prove far more useful than a pumper or an aerial. 5. PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETINGS AND MID-CONSTRUCTION INSPECTIONS: A. You should not have to pay for someone's time for them to meet with you about selling you a fire truck, so don't do it and don't let it be included in the price of the fire truck. If they wish to sell you a fire truck, they'll make time for you. B. DO NOT pay for or attend any kind of conference or inspection of the truck while it is being built! Often dealers/manufacturers will not only charge you for this meeting/inspection, but they will have you sign off on it as 'inspected' and that all is well. What you have done then is to pay them for assuming all of THEIR product liability, so that if something is wrong or goes wrong mechanically, you have just put it into writing you knew about and said it was OK...this means you and your fire department are then and now totally responsible for fixing it or changing it. Why would you do that? Why would you pay to do it??? Instead, make the manufacturer/dealer send you photos of the truck under construction as either hardcopy photos or as attachments to e-mails. If you wish to see these or need them for a meeting it is up to the dealer and the manufacturer to send you these photos and progress reports. The only time you want or you need to see that truck, is when it is being delivered and backed into your bay on or before the day the contract says it is to be delivered. 6. PAYING FOR THE CONSTRUCTION IN PHASES: A. Some manufacturers, certainly smaller and family owned businesses keep their margins and inventories low. Thus, they prefer to be paid in phases of construction, such as purchasing of the chassis from another manufacturer, purchase of the pump, water tank, foam systems and other equipment they do not make, but must purchase elsewhere. This is fine, but make sure that you get an invoice for each purchase and verification that the previous steps in the construction process were indeed achieved. It also helps you, in that the money remains in your bank account and earning interest for you! B. You will wish to see a copy of the invoice for each component (chassis, pump, tank, etc.) and do not pay more than 10% more than the dealer/manufacturer has been invoiced by a third party. C. Only pay the number of labor hours and the rate that was cited in the original bid for the completion of this phase of the construction. D. Retain a minimum of 10% of the balance of the cost of the fire truck, until after it has been delivered, you have had a day or so training with it and you have had time and opportunities to inspect every working component of your new fire truck. 7. T-SHIRTS, BALL CAPS, BURGERS and BEER: A. DO NOT feel obligated to buy a fire truck from a manufacturer or dealer, just because they 'gave you' t-shirts, ball caps, and buy you a couple of beers. Often you will find you not only paid for these, but you paid premium prices that ultimately amount to $500 per t-shirt, ball cap & beer. B. Why would you pay to advertise for someone...instead, if they want you to wear their t-shirts and ball caps to advertise for them, then have them deduct $500 from the price of the truck for each t-shirt and ball cap you wear to advertise for them. 8. WARRANTIES AND SERVICE: A. Make sure that you have warranties for the chassis, the pump, the tank, the aerial (if applicable) and all other components. A warranty for the paint job is not sufficient and it is useless. B. Make sure that if the dealer/manufacturer is also supplying service that they and their staff are indeed EVT and not just a diesel mechanic. C. Make sure that all warranties, extended warranties and related are clearly disclosed as to what they do indeed cover, for how long, any disclaimers and/or exemptions, and all costs for these warranties. 9. DELIVERY, INSPECTION AND TRAINING: A. When you take possession of your new fire truck, you should have at least one (1) full day worth of training from the dealer/manufacturer included with your purchase price. B. When you inspect your new fire truck, check out every light, the engine throttled up, the tranny, the brakes, the pump at capacity, every seal, the dumps time, fill time, the outrigger and aerial (if applicable), communications, and just about every feature you purchased on your new fire truck. C. Create a checklist of these features and don't sign anything per delivery, until after your new fire truck passes your inspection. You may wish to also have someone else there as a third party witness or inspector to make sure that the truck you bought and paid for is the truck you take delivery. 10: PAPERWORK: A. Upon delivery and successful inspection, make sure you have the title, warranties and all paperwork necessary to register and insure your truck, before putting it into service. B. If you do not have receipts and all paperwork, then you are not ready to accept delivery of the new fire truck and put it into service. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USED FIRE TRUCK SALES AND PURCHASING CONSIDERATIONS Some of the pitfalls and issues with buying a used fire truck are similar to buying a new one, certainly when it comes to manufacturer's dealers and independent dealers and marketers. Here are just a few of them. 1. DEALERS and MARKETERS: A. If a dealer or marketer has a large number of fire trucks on their web site, it is either because they just have a lot of pictures of fire trucks and they are just trying to attract inquiries, bait & switch or other practices, or they have a lot of fire trucks they have can't sell and they have not been able to sell for the fire departments listing them. If you are buying a fire truck, you may wish to offer 75% of the asking price of the fire truck. B. If the dealer or marketer has a commission higher than 5% for a used fire truck, this often forces a fire department to ask too much for their used fire truck, which causes it to continue to cost the seller money in maintaining and housing the apparatus, which is only going to continue to lose value with age. DO NOT list your truck with any "dealer", who charges more than a 5% commission. C. If a dealer or marketer does not disclose your asking price and simply uses "Call for Price", "Reduced", or similar in the advertising listing of your fire truck for sale, then get them to put it in writing, that by doing so they agree to purchase your fire truck for your full asking price, if it doesn't sell within ninety (90) days. D. If a dealer or marketer requires you to give them an exclusive listing, only do so if they agree, in writing, to purchase your fire truck for your full asking price, if it doesn't sell within ninety (90) days. E. If a dealer or marketer says in their marketing agreement they keep all sums above your asking price or all sums above 95% of your asking price, make them to agree then to purchase your used fire truck, for your full asking price, if they do not sell it within ninety (90) days. F. If you are trading in your used fire truck to purchase a new one, visit other web sites selling used fire trucks and only agree to a trade-in value that is no less than 75% of the average comparable sales prices you find through other sources. G. If you have had your used fire truck on the market for more than ninety (90) days, then you need to consider reducing your sales price and listing your fire truck for sale through other sources. If you are in a contract to list/sell your fire truck, you may wish to renegotiate this agreement, per the above Item-D hereto. H. If the dealer or marketer says "no contracts or paperwork necessary", run from them like a jack-rabbit, because without paperwork, how can you sell a truck and how can another buy the truck to then register it, to insure it, and put it into service? 2. PAPERWORK: A. A dealer or marketer or a selling fire department should be able to provide all information regarding the used fire truck they are selling, including copies of certifications, condition disclosure forms signed by the seller, whether or not they are the owner or just a listing agent, and other vital information. B. If you are selling a used fire truck and a dealer doesn't have a marketing agreement with a maximum commission of five percent (5%), an apparatus condition disclosure form, and other forms and processes to help you sell your truck, then you need to find another more capable, honest and credible dealer. 3. LENGTH OF TIME TO SELL A USED FIRE TRUCK: A. If a fire truck has been on a dealer's or marketer's web site or on the market for longer than ninety (90) days, it is because either there is something seriously wrong with this apparatus, or it is grossly overpriced. B. If you are a seller of a fire truck that has not sold you probably need to drop your asking price or find another listing agent dealer. If you are buying a fire truck and you've seen one on the market for over ninety (90) days, then consider making an offer for it at 25%-50% less the asking price. 4. CERTIFICATION: A. DO NOT buy a fire truck that is not certified, unless you are buying it to refurbish/restore it or modify it to then later have it certified. If you or another firefighter is inured because of some failure or defect of this truck you will run the risk of not only invalidating any insurance claim you may have, but this may be even a criminal negligence and/or reckless endangerment charge. 5. FAIR MARKET VALUE OF A USED FIRE TRUCK: A. Of course anybody buying and/or selling a used fire truck wants to get the best price. If you are looking for comparable either as buyer or seller, then as you visit various web sites selling fire trucks, look at their prices and reduce these by about 25%...this will give you a better idea of what you can ask and expect to receive for the purchase of the fire truck. B. Fire trucks are like any vehicle in that they are going to depreciate rapidly. Therefore, even though they are well-maintained and garaged kept, you are not going to sell your used fire truck for a price near what you paid for it. C. Often a used truck may not be exactly what you are seeking, but if you offer a little less, explaining that you need to change the lights, put in a bigger pump, tank, foam system or other feature, just remember the answer is always no, until you ask. 6. WARRANTIES AND SERVICE: A. Make sure that you have warranties for the chassis, the pump, the tank, the aerial (if applicable) and all other components, if they still exist. This is especially true if the pump has been rebuilt or replaced or there were other major refurbishing or restoration prior to the truck being put up for sale.. A warranty for the paint job is not sufficient and it is useless. B. Make sure that you have a local dealer/manufacturer supplying service that they and their staff are indeed EVT and not just a diesel mechanic. C. Make sure that all warranties, extended warranties and related are clearly disclosed as to what they do indeed cover, for how long, any disclaimers and/or exemptions, and all costs for these warranties. This is just a summary of some of the common practices we have seen in not only trying to deal with others in the sales of fire trucks, but also in the financing of these sales. If you wish to purchase a new or used fire truck, or sell your used fire truck, then contact us for more information.
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